Chamomile tea for inducing period after Depo Provera (take 2!)

I thought I would update on the effects of using chamomile tea to induce my period. After 3 nights of drinking chamomile tea, I stopped for about two days, mostly from being busy. I noticed the first morning after I stopped the chamomile I had what appeared to be an increase in spotting. I found I needed to wear a pantiliner "just in case" since then. Most days I might not have needed it until later in the day. Lately, the spotting has slowed down, even though I started drinking chamomile again yesterday.

Ah, and bonus! My order of Dong Quai supplement came in. It instructs to take 1-2 mL 3 times a day. I don't know if I can do that, as I'd have to take it to work or mix it up before work.  So I'm going to start with 1-2 doses per day, also to see how it affects me.

As I noted in earlier posts, Dong Quai can be dangerous in early pregnancy, so always ensure you are not currently pregnant before starting it. It also recommends to only take from menstruation to ovulation, to ensure that if a fetus implants there is less affect from it in early pregnancy. Since I'm not sure if I will menstruate or ovulate on this first, I may start temping in a few days if my period doesn't show.

Ok, don't know if this is the Dong Quai or tired after a long day, but I'm suddenly feeling sleepy. One of the double perks I read about Dong Quai is it's antihistamine properties, which I need as my fall allergies are kicking in. But, apparently I'll only be able to take at night if it makes me this drowsy.

My current experience inducing AF aka my menses after Depo Provera

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I know I said I was going to continue my last post on herbal emmenagogues and I will start with the choices I attempted. Some of the most accessible to me were chamomile, and possibly peppermint (although I think this must be taken in larger doses). The first night I tried a cup or two of peppermint tea, which was a little spicy/stingy, but really helped my stomach. I didn’t notice any change in spotting or anything after that.

The next night I tried chamomile tea, which has more data supporting its ability to bring on menstruation (See this site at Sister Zeus for inducing late menstruation) The chamomile had quite the opposite effect on my stomach, but the next morning I had begun to spot.

Now, the main ways depo provera works to prevent pregnancy are thinning the lining of the uterus and creating a sticky mucus plug to prevent sperm from reaching the egg. When the first of the spotting began after drinking the tea, it was very pale, brown and had clots that were very pale—almost white.  So, I have had 1-2 cups of chamomile tea each night, each morning spotting has increased, but is still quite brown and somewhat clotty.

Today I have also experienced increase in cramps, tender nipples, and bloating/constipation, which are some usual PMS signs for me. I may continue the chamomile tea, but it is definitely a diuretic, as even if I drink only one cup, I have to pee A LOT not just at night, but sometimes even into the next day.

I have been debating if chamomile is the right solution for me. As the depo provera has thinned the lining of my uterus, I’m not sure if there is much to start a period. I have been reading a lot of information on various herbs that are helpful in regulating the menstrual cycle.

Three that come highly recommended are Dong Quai, Red Clover and Red Raspberry Leaf. According to Natural Fertility Info.com, Red clover is helpful in increasing circulatory function, and can also be key in improving a woman’s cervical fluid.

Another herb that works well with Red Clover is Red Raspberry Leaf. The benefits of RedRaspberry Leafcan counteract the increased bleeding that may occur with Red Clover. The particular benefits of Red Raspberry Leaf for fertility according to Natural Fertility Info.com are:

Recurrent Miscarriage: If you have experienced miscarriage due to uterine weakness.

·       Heavy Menstrual Bleeding: The astringent properties of this herb help to stop heavy bleeding. It is also high in iron which may help prevent anemia due to heavy menstrual bleeding.

Poor Egg Quality/Nutritional Deficiency: This herb is very nutritive and may help to boost overall nutrition.

·       General Preparation for Pregnancy: If you are thinking of trying to get pregnant this herb may be a great ally for preparing your uterus and boosting overall nutritional intake. It is also safe for men to use as well as it does not contain any hormone like substances.

·       Uterine Trauma: If you have had surgery to remove fibroids, endometrial tissues, cysts or have had uterine prolapse, previous uterine hemmorage or a Cesarean section this herb may help your recovery and healing of the uterus. The toning effect of Red Raspberry leaf helps the uterus to recover more quickly.

Dong Quai is the Chinese form of Angelica. It is also considered a blood tonic and these are the benefits of Dong Quai on the female reproductive system as listed by Natural Fertility Info.com

·  Menstrual irregularities  (Previous problem I have had)

·  Delayed or absent menstruation (Current problem after Depo)

·  Short periods with cramping

·  Strengthening a “weakened uterus”

·  If you experience cramping and PMS during your period.

·  Women who have stopped taking birth control pills and need to encourage a regular cycle (Definite need for post-Depo fertility aid)

·  Light or slow starting menstruation

·  Stagnant conditions

For myself I am choosing to start Dong Quai. I have ordered a Dong Quai tincture to start with balancing my cycle. If this is successful, I may consider adding a combo of Red Clover/Red Raspberry Leaf.

Please don’t forget to read the safety and side effects listed on Natural Fertility Info.com’s page on Dong Quai; the most important are to remember to stop during menstruation, as it can lead to heavy bleeding and also if you get a positive pregnancy test as it can be toxic in early pregnancy.

I can’t wait to get my order in! In the meantime I may keep up with the chamomile.

Understanding Herbal Emmenagogues Pt. 1

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     Last post I mentioned wanting to create a post on how to use herbal emmenagogues to induce menstruation. In this part, I want to describe what an emmenagogue is, what reasons to use one when trying to conceive and various resources and options for you to use in determining the best herbs for your particular needs.

     The reason to take an emmenagogue is if a woman’s period was running late and she wants to hurry it along. Many women with infertility that are attempting to conceive may often experience long, anovulatory cycles which can delay the start of a new cycle, extending the horrid waiting experienced throughout the process of trying to conceive.

    One benefit to be received from learning to chart fertility signs is the awareness that if ovulation is known to occur a woman may have to wait no more than 17 days after its occurrence to experience her menstrual bleed.¹ But, for many women having difficulty conceiving a physical condition is preventing ovulation from occurring, which will delay shedding of the uterine lining.

    To be clear, an emmenagogue is something best to use when pregnancy is known to have not been achieved and one wants to ensure that their next cycle will start. Most emmenagogues can be safe even if the woman is pregnant and would not affect a healthy pregnancy. Some emmenagogues, however, may be classified as abortifacients meaning it could be possible to for their use to cause a healthy pregnancy to terminate if taken very early in the cycle. ²

  Part of the problem is that in reading websites, books and other sources of information on herbs that can be used this way conflicting information may be listed. The most reliable way to know which kind of herbal emmenagogue is best for you would be to consult a professional that specializes in alternative treatments as most will have some knowledge of herbs.

    An example of some practitioners that may assist you in understanding herbs appropriate to address your fertility needs might be chiropractors, acupuncturists, naturopaths and herbalists.³  When searching for these professionals in your area, be sure to check whether they have knowledge or experience in addressing fertility issues. This can be done by reviewing information on their websites or directories they are listed in, but more reliably by contacting their office and asking how familiar the practitioners are in addressing fertility issues. It can save a lot of time and money by making sure the office you schedule with is familiar with treating your condition.

    Another resource available is a local shop that sells herbs in various forms, such as dried, in tinctures, essential oils and infusions. If you are comfortable researching herbs on your own, but would like guidance, this can be a great resource as you will find a variety of helpful herbs that may not be at your local grocery store and most staff at herb stores can advise you on the correct herbs to use, the best method of using them and which ones to avoid.  Although they may not be able to cater as individually to you as one of the practitioners listed above, they can certainly ensure that you are taking the herbs correctly and not in dangerous combinations. Mostly, it may only cost you the price of the herbs you decide to purchase.

    The most cost efficient way would be to do the research on use of herbs yourself, either by finding trusted websites that publish their knowledge of how to use these herbs or checking out books at the library that instruct on the use of natural herbs. It would be highly suggested if looking for information on the internet to look at multiple, reliable sources and verify information with published books on herbs; these can always be found at your local library if you don’t have the budget to purchase these books for yourself. This way if you decide to purchase herbs online you can ensure you are getting the correct ones and using them as safely as possible.  

My next post I will overview the various methods to use an emmenagogue and which I may be trying for myself.  

  

--> ¹Information based on Family Awareness Method as described by Toni Weschler in Taking Charge of Your Fertility, 10th Anniversary Edition: The Definitive Guide to Natural Birth Control, Pregnancy Achievement, and Reproductive Health

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²Information summarized from this page by Sister Zeus on emmenagogues categorized by how potent and also in what way they work to induce menstruation http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm 

Herbal Fertility Information by Sister Zeus

http://www.sisterzeus.com/directory.html
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Books on using herbs and your fertility:

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Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom (Revised Edition): Creating Physical and Emotional Health and Healing

 

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The Woman's Book of Healing Herbs

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Herbal Healing for Women

 

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Getting Pregnant Naturally: Healthy Choices To Boost Your Chances Of Conceiving Without Fertility Drugs

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Overcoming Infertility Naturally

Returning to fertility after the Depo Provera shot

So, I knew that Depo Provera injection for birth control had its risks. Not just the range of severe side effects (weight gain, breast tenderness, moodiness, bloating, IBS effects, etc) but the fact it can take twice as long as other types of birth control to return to ovulation and fertility. At the time, it seemed an acceptable option as I was looking at the recommendation (or some might call it strong-arming) of the crack perinatologist team that wanted me to get a tubal ligation.

Now that I have the amazing news from my cardiologist that he supports my efforts to TTC, I’m researching what it means to attempt pregnancy after Depo Provera. From most information I read, the minimum time to return to fertility after Depo Provera may be 55 days (about 2 months) but most agree that the expected time would be around 6 months. See Web MD Blog and Society for Menstrual CycleResearch  (See Justisse Method: Fertility Awareness and Body Literacy A User's Guide (Volume 1) for their take on Natural Family Planning)

Based on most information, since Depo Provera works two ways to prevent pregnancy, thickening the cervical fluid and thinning the lining of the uterus. See this BabyMed.com article.

I am not sure, but since I know some form of penicillin can help create fertile cervical fluid, I think that my recent z-pack prescription had a huge effect on helping kick out the rest of the depo provera in my system. But….most of my internet searches indicate that because depo provera is delivered through injection and antibiotics in the stomach, the antibiotics have little effect on the shot. Most notably, this abstract of a research study by the NIH (NationalInstitute for Health) 

But, there are several anecdotal stories of women taking antibiotics while on depo provera becoming pregnant and one woman’s blog claimed the use of antibiotics with aggressive detoxing (drink plenty of water, lots of movement) could make it get out of your system faster. Also, in addition to my increased EWCM, a few days after a BM (bowel movement) I would notice very, very light red spotting. Not the usually yucky brown that depo gave me.

Whichever the case, I guess a little extra water and exercise couldn’t hurt, right? I have to say, I am in a minority of women that Depo Provera did not cause to gain weight---of course I only had one shot, but I noticed last week that I seemed to be losing weight without really trying. Trust me, that rarely happens to me.  I thought I might make it out of the 200s! Although, I suppose my appetite was less while the depo was strong. Not terribly, like some instances of depression I have had, but enough to prevent me noshing more often than I used to. Please, former or current depo users, don’t hate me! I can hardly help how my body is affected by this hormone than yours was.

I certainly hope that the depo will leave my system soon. Although I believe I may have a chance while on the antibiotics due to much more fertile cervical fluid, I am not sure if there is even an egg to fertilize, and if there were, I believe chances of miscarriage/chemical may be greater as I would have much thinner uterine lining.

I was  just talking to a friend on Facebook and she stated that the time for Depo to leave may be related equally to how long you took it--so for me about 3 months (1 shot) means I could expect first menses/ovulation around February or so. This may just be anecdotal, as I hope someone on it 5 years wouldn't have to wait 5 years for it to return and according to the science it can take anywhere between 3 months to 18 months (a rare case documented) for it to return. It seemed most women fell around the six month mark.

Next post I am going to explore the many natural and Rx methods one can use to at least induce AF, if not O---gonna dig up my old herbal emmenagogues site. I'd love to see a post about your known or reported methods of forcing AF to show her ugly face.

Just when you're ready to zig, they zag...

So, I wanted to ease back into blogging. One reason I listed my last blog post was because those were the things I have been dealing with since the end of July.I scheduled an appt with the ACHA certified cardiologist in Houston. Let's call him Dr. Direct. I had an MRI and was sent home with a holter monitor to measure my heart rhythms for 24 hours. I was told when I left that after Dr. Direct had a chance to go over the MRI and other test results, he would call me to discuss the results.

At the appt, Dr. Direct mentioned that there would be certain conditions that I had to meet to even qualify for the melody valve procedure. At least two things had to be changed, the size of my valve (width) and also amount of leakage through the valve. Dr. Direct acknowledged another option that he recommended, of adding additional medications to my current single med I am currently taking to moderate my heart palpitations (irregular rhythms).



I was relieved that there could be another option other than surgery. I also mentioned to Dr. Direct the recommendations of the perinatologists at my local hospital and how they pressured me to agree to a tubal ligation, the fact that I'd been trying for 4 years to get pregnant. At first Dr. Direct was not aware that I had already been trying, and he clarified that my cardiologists during that time were okay with me trying to conceive.

Although he asked questions about our efforts, he never directly said that he thought whether it was OK for me to conceive at this time. However, he had yet to look at my current tests and I was sure he did not want to commit to an answer without all of the information.

So, I left still accepting I may never be able to carry my own child, to be a parent. I waited 2 weeks, then called the hospital to ask if Dr. Direct had made progress and may call me soon. Somehow, my first few calls that week and the next were not received by his assistant. I finally was able to call last week and reach his assistant. She was able to call me that same day, and check with Dr. Direct on his assessment.

First, she said that Dr. Direct was very pleased with my MRI results. I don't remember her mentioning what he said about my holter monitor, so I assume it was OK. She also said Dr. Direct needs me to come back in 6 months for a Stress test, ECHO and to meet with Dr. Direct again after. I also asked if he thought it would be permissible for me to attempt to conceive. After checking with him, she said Dr. Direct stated that he was OK with attempts to conceive and would provide support should that occur.

And, as wonderful as that is....I think part of me only wanted to know so that I could be vindicated with the evaluation of the perinatologists that wanted me to basically sterilize myself. (not really, can be reversed) That is why I titled my post this way. I am not sure now that I have the option. I was soooo steeped in trying to conceive for so long....it had started to consume every part of my life.  Everything I experienced I referenced with my efforts to conceive a child, or my repeated inability to do so. And being forced to withdraw from that, to truly let it go; it's been freeing. I can be me, myself. It didn't matter where I was in my cycle or if I even had a cycle.  Foods I used to screen for whether it would be safe if pregnant, these weren't important. I think I found a way back to myself.

And I'm scared that I can't get back into TTC halfheartedly. That if we start trying again, I won't be able to keep me and TTC. Perhaps if I can hold on to my acceptance of living child-free. Although it seems incomprehensible to even TTC without charting at some point, I think perhaps I might not. It could take months or a year before my cycle truly returns with the depo provera shot--which I was due to get again next week. I already feel some symptoms of my cycle returning--for instance, a few days this week I had sore/tender breasts, which hasn't occured since I started the depo provera. And today--I can't say for sure that it was due to my menstrual cycle hormones, but this evening I got some inexplicable fatigue that I really haven't felt since I was last ovulating. And now I think about it, some cramping, but with my IBS, I can't really rely on that.

As much as I enjoyed the documenting and tracking of symptoms and all the tools and the sites---I'm afraid that it just feeds my obsession.

What do you think? Can it be done--TTC without obsession. I think the only way to do so is to accept the results without anticipation, which is one of the hardest things to do when it is something that matters so much. Let me know if any of you have found any way to separate trying to conceive from who you are as a person. Allow it to be just a part of who you are instead of the whole kit and kaboodle.

Feel free to vote in the poll listed above the main posts, and comment here!

How to accept the option of living child-free

Obviously, I haven't posted in months. From my last post, I was struggling with the recommendations from my doctors that carrying a pregnancy would endanger my life and processing never being able to parent a child that was my husband's and mine without the use of a surrogate.
Every couple seeking to conceive will have different motivations for doing so. I think for all of us it is based on a primal instinct to reproduce.  I believe the motivations of each couple are important in determining what avenues of achieving parenthood that they  are willing to pursue.

Most couples start with natural means. Some may need to move on to further medical interventions, such as IUI or IVF. These may be needed if the couples main motivation is to carry a child that is genetically theirs and for the mother to carry the pregnancy.



For some, their fertility problems or other health issues may require them to look at other options. These may include:

• Egg /Sperm donation
• For couples whose main issue is the viability of the woman's egg or man's sperm that prevents pregnancy, but the female could still carry a pregnancy.
• Individuals wishing to conceive as a single parent may use this method
• Same-sex couples wishing to  have a child with at least one of the partners' genetic material
• Interested? Check these out for more info:
• Family Building Through Egg and Sperm Donation (Google Affiliate Ad) 
• Principles of Oocyte and Embryo Donation (Google Affiliate Ad)

• Surrogacy
• For prospective parents that are in need of a woman to carry their child
• Prospective mother is unable to carry a pregnancy to term due to inability or health risks to the potential mother
• Male same-sex couples may combine egg donation with the use of a surrogate to carry their embryo (As described in The Complete Lesbian & Gay Parenting Guide By Lev, Arlene Istar (Google Affiliate Ad))
• For more info see Birth Power: The Case for Surrogacy (Google Affiliate Ad)
• Adoption
• Couples who have reached the limit of natural conception and are either unable or not desiring to  pursue alternative methods listed above
• Couples whose desire for parenthood may supersede their desire to have a genetic child
• Couples or single parents that desire to join their parenting goals with giving an orphaned child a family
• If you would like to look into this, check out:
• Secrets to Your Successful Domestic Adoption By Pedley, Jennifer Joyce (Google Affiliate Ad) 
• Adopting a Daughter from China (Google Affiliate Ad)
• The Complete Book of International Adoption By Davenport, Dawn (Google Affiliate Ad)
• Child-Free
• This option is for couples or hopeful parents-to-be that may have exhausted their resources and efforts on the above family-building options

 As I processed the grief of never being able to carry my own child, I had to evaluate which of these options my spouse and I would be willing to try. I realized the main part of my grief was that my husband and I would not be able to have a child that was ours--a mixture of him and me. When I realized that this was more important to me than simply being a parent, I realized that the only options we might have would be surrogacy or child-free. Since surrogacy is currently out of our financial means, I was beginning to accept a child-free life.

Since I genuinely love my husband and our current life together this was an acceptable option for me. It was easier to accept when my husband reminded me that he married me, not someone to be the mother of his children and he loved me not matter what. I feel exactly the same way, and I know now that if we are somehow able to conceive a child of our own or not, I will still be fulfilled in the life I have.